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Adding lists and series
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Pierre
Posted 2010-05-24 8:06 AM (#2089 - in reply to #2088)
Subject: Re: Adding lists and series



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Ratings could indeed have an effect, though speaking for myself, I would probabably never rate a book with a 6 or lower as I would not read it or finish it, and there are many of those. How many books in the db have a rating below 5? I would presume not many. I would say most books fall between 7 and 9 and because of this, a rating becomes less useful, not counting the individual preferences. Somebody can give a book a 10 while another a 6, but this does not mean a book is either the best of the best or a bad one. It is simply if it fell into your preferences.
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hihik
Posted 2010-05-24 12:18 PM (#2090 - in reply to #2086)
Subject: Re: Adding lists and series



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great find! one thing though, most of them are not translated into english, i think Dave wanted only those with translations.

i am all in with htaccess that if a list doesn't exist we should build one. as i mentioned before, Dave, that would be a great value-add and attraction for new users.

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Administrator
Posted 2010-05-24 11:02 PM (#2091 - in reply to #2086)
Subject: Re: Adding lists and series



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htaccess - 2010-05-24 6:20 AM Regarding the best non-english sf: http://www.locusmag.com/Reviews/2010/03/overview-of-international-s... In general I would suggest that these missing lists are a great opportunity for WWEnd, if they don't exist then create them! At its simplest you could make a forum topic where people could nominate and vote and use the lists area to make the resulting list. The lists would need to be updated periodically to allow people to continue to add new material and vote for old material. Starting small would also be a good idea, say a top ten list, it could then be expanded as necessary. Obviously a more complex specialised mechanism for voting and nominating could be built.

I like the idea of making WWEnder lists but I'm not sure we have the numbers to make a go of it.  I made a try at getting a list going in the Overlooked Books thread and did not get much response.  It takes a lot more people than we have right now to make a good list IMO.  What I don't want to do is have a list that goes nowhere cause everyone looses interest for lack of participation.  But if you guys tell me otherwise I'm game to try it.

 

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Administrator
Posted 2010-05-24 11:45 PM (#2092 - in reply to #2087)
Subject: Re: Adding lists and series



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Pierre - 2010-05-24 7:49 AM Maybe I oversimplify, but if the sub-genres are accurately reflected by admin and members, then lists would create themselves and be generated through a db search. In other words, the more books are added, the best lists will be created. Isn't it also a matter of tagging them correctly and completely, for example: Genre, sub-genres, Series or not, Country/language of origin, number of reads, award wins or noms etc. It all comes down to the books in the db.

I agree with Deven, you make a good point about combing through the DB to create new lists.  I think we have a pretty good plan to make that work already:

We've got a "custom list" feature on our enhancement list that will allow WWEnders to create their own custom lists that they can share with other members through the forum.  You'll be able to get some feedback to help you refine your list and we can make the best private lists, determined by vote, into public lists that can be accessed from the list section and the novel pages directly.

So for example, if you create a personal list of the "The Best Post-Apocalyptic Novels" and folks in the forum thought it kicked ass enough to warrant making it a public we'd call a vote and make it public.  Once it becomes a public list a new check box would appear in the member section of the novel page for any book sub-genre tagged as "Post-Apocalyptic" that would allow members to vote it up the list.  The resulting list would be dynamic and change over time as more people vote.  Since WWEnders determine the sub-genre tags as a group only the books that you guys have determined to belong in that sub-genre would be eligible for inclusion in that particular list.  Debate about miss-tagged books or books missing from the DB would ensue in the forums resulting in more accurate tags and the inclusion of new books.

Now, back to adding new existing lists:

My goal has been to leverage existing lists, from reputable sources, as a convenient way to find new quality books to add to the DB.  With each new list we all get some new books to sift through and these books, by virtue of having been in these lists, are going to be better books by and large than any random books we could add to the DB.  We can continue to grow our base with the best books first.  They're a perfect expansion outward from the awards lists since they cover the books that came before the awards or were overlooked etc.

An excellent example of this is the afore-mentioned Classics of Science Fiction list.  Throwing that list in adds 82 new books to the DB by some top-notch authors like Lewis, Ellison and Van Vogt.  There is surely some award caliber material in that 82.

I'm starting to ramble a bit now.  So, what does all this mean?  I'm going to keep looking for great lists, and counting on you guys to help me find them.  They are out there waiting to be plucked like the ripe fruit they are so you guys will never run out of books!

But don't worry, we'll get around to coding the custom lists eventually too.

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Administrator
Posted 2010-09-28 12:50 PM (#2169 - in reply to #2092)
Subject: Re: Adding lists and series



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It's been a long time since this thread was active but I thought I'd just mention here that we've finally started getting some Military SF into the site.

Still haven't found an award or a list but I did find a nice article by Mike Resnick that had a bunch of Mil-SF books in it.  I started adding some from the article (42 so far) and I posted a blog article about it too:

Lock ‘n Load! - Military SF at Worlds Without End

The Resnick article is linked from the blog post and is worth a read so be sure to check that out.

I'm currently working with a Mil-SF author on creating a new list.  I'll post more info here when I can.

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htaccess
Posted 2010-10-06 12:42 AM (#2176 - in reply to #2169)
Subject: Re: Adding lists and series



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Hey Dave

Great that you're still adding stuff (although I admit that Military SF is not my thing). I would like to recast my vote for the Classics of Science Fiction list Compiled by James Wallace Harris:

http://classics.jameswallaceharris.com/Lists/ByRank.php

He has arguably made one of the most rigorous lists available if you read his posts about the list creation methodology:

http://classics.jameswallaceharris.com/Essays/Classics_of_SF.html
http://jameswharris.wordpress.com/2007/02/24/twenty-years-ago-the-c...

Keep up the good work, hope you find a coder soon.
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Administrator
Posted 2010-10-06 8:04 AM (#2177 - in reply to #2176)
Subject: Re: Adding lists and series



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htaccess - 2010-10-06 12:42 AM Hey Dave Great that you're still adding stuff (although I admit that Military SF is not my thing). I would like to recast my vote for the Classics of Science Fiction list Compiled by James Wallace Harris: http://classics.jameswallaceharris.com/Lists/ByRank.php He has arguably made one of the most rigorous lists available if you read his posts about the list creation methodology: http://classics.jameswallaceharris.com/Essays/Classics_of_SF.html http://jameswharris.wordpress.com/2007/02/24/twenty-years-ago-the-c... Keep up the good work, hope you find a coder soon.

Well, I've got good news for you on that front.  I'm about 20 books away from getting all the Classics of Science Fiction list completed.  It's a huge list and I've stopped a few times to do the MilSF and some other series books etc.  I should be able to finish it this weekend so look for it Monday or Tuesday.

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Administrator
Posted 2010-10-11 10:20 AM (#2179 - in reply to #2177)
Subject: Re: Adding lists and series



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Administrator - 2010-10-06 8:04 AM Well, I've got good news for you on that front.  I'm about 20 books away from getting all the Classics of Science Fiction list completed.  It's a huge list and I've stopped a few times to do the MilSF and some other series books etc.  I should be able to finish it this weekend so look for it Monday or Tuesday.

Turns our I had more like 35 novels left to add and not much time to work on it this weekend.  I did get 8 more posted and I got the images together for the others so I'll be able to whittle away at them this week.

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Administrator
Posted 2010-10-24 11:55 PM (#2182 - in reply to #2179)
Subject: Re: Adding lists and series



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OK.  I finally got all the Classics of SF (193!) added to the DB.  The list is in the DB too but I've lost my RDC so I won't be able to update the site until tomorrow morning.  Almost there!
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Administrator
Posted 2010-10-25 8:07 AM (#2183 - in reply to #2182)
Subject: Re: Adding lists and series



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Done deal!  Check it out.

The Classics of SF

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hihik
Posted 2010-10-25 1:59 PM (#2184 - in reply to #2183)
Subject: Re: Adding lists and series



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great list. thanks, Dave.
one bug there, if i open a book's page and then click on the name of the list from the lists section it just reloads the book-page. i'd expect it to bring me to the selected list.
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Administrator
Posted 2010-10-25 2:16 PM (#2185 - in reply to #2184)
Subject: Re: Adding lists and series



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hihik - 2010-10-25 1:59 PM great list. thanks, Dave. one bug there, if i open a book's page and then click on the name of the list from the lists section it just reloads the book-page. i'd expect it to bring me to the selected list.

Thanks for catching that, hihik!  I forgot to add the page address to the data table.  It's fixed now.

Glad you like the new list.  It's rather an extensive list to be sure.  It's got most of the SF Masterworks on it so if you've made a dent in that one you have a good start on the Classics list.

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htaccess
Posted 2010-10-26 4:29 PM (#2186 - in reply to #2185)
Subject: Re: Adding lists and series



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Thanks Dave!

This list is a great addition to the lists section. I think its fair to say the lists section is getting pretty comprehensive.
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Administrator
Posted 2010-10-26 6:46 PM (#2187 - in reply to #2186)
Subject: Re: Adding lists and series



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htaccess - 2010-10-26 4:29 PM Thanks Dave! This list is a great addition to the lists section. I think its fair to say the lists section is getting pretty comprehensive.

Glad you like it.  Just wish it didn't take so long - 193 books is a lot of work!

I really like how that section is coming together, too.  I want to get some different kinds of lists in there now to broaden the appeal.  I've got to get busy on the Mil SF list again and perhaps something like a "classics of fantasy" to go with the new SF list.  Looking for fantasy recommendations if anyone knows of a good fantasy list.

There seems to be a lot of talk on the interwebs about women SF/F authors not getting the recognition they deserve.  No arguments here.  I've been making an effort to read more women the last few years and a list of the top award winning/nominated books by women authors in the WWEnd DB would be good for anyone else wanting to do the same.  That would be an easy list to put together too as it would not require any new books be added first.  I like the low hanging fruit so that one sounds like a winner.

Any other ideas for lists?

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htaccess
Posted 2010-10-27 2:33 AM (#2188 - in reply to #1740)
Subject: Re: Adding lists and series



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Looking back at the start of the thread theres still the Sci-Fi Lists Top 100 Sci-Fi Books:

http://home.austarnet.com.au/petersykes/topscifi/lists_books_rank1....

Its a bit of a random list and the methodology leaves something to be desired but it ranks highly on google (top item for the search "best of science fiction list" for example) so it would be good to have it there for completeness. A quick scan suggests you have most of them already.

This one from goodreads will be skewed towards SF liked by people who mostly don't read SF:

http://www.goodreads.com/list/show/3.Best_Science_Fiction_Books

One type of list I would like to see more of is best of the decade lists like:

http://io9.com/5423847/20-best-science-fiction-books-of-the-decade

hopefully we will see some more of these in the next little while. Currently the lists are light on more modern stuff given most of them were complied long ago or they are specifically targeting classics or aggregating other lists. It would be nice to see some more recently complied lists and best of the 00's seems like a good bet.

Theres also "The Gollancz Future Classics Range":

not sure this is the "real" list or not, can't find a definitive source

Altered Carbon by Richard Morgan
Blood Music by Greg Bear
Revelation Space by Alastair Reynolds
The Separation by Christopher Priest
Evolution by Stephen Baxter
Fairyland by Paul J. McAuley
Hyperion by Dan Simmons
Schild's Ladder by Greg Egan (great to see this one in here)

theres also this new space opera list from Gollancz :

Century Rain by Alastair Reynolds
The Centauri Device by M John Harrison
Tau Zero by Poul Anderson
Eon by Greg Bear
Ringworld by Larry Niven
Stone by Adam Roberts
Rendezvous with Rama by Arthur C Clarke
Last and First Men by Olaf Stapledon
Ilium by Dan Simmons
Eternal Light by Paul McAuley

I like your idea of highlighting women writers in some sort of list, I think the list that emerges from this discussion will be a good one to include:

http://vectoreditors.wordpress.com/2010/10/11/planning-and-polling/ *
http://www.tor.com/blogs/2010/10/future-classics-best-science-ficti...

* note you can vote yourself up until Sunday 5 December...

other random possibilities:

http://www.sfsignal.com/archives/2010/05/mind-meld-what-science-fic...
http://www.sfsignal.com/archives/2010/05/mind-meld-what-science-fic...
http://thisrecording.com/today/2010/1/18/in-which-we-count-down-the...
http://io9.com/5626861/a-syllabus-and-book-list-for-novice-students...
http://www.bestfantasybooks.com/best-science-fiction-books.html
http://www.bestfantasybooks.com/top25-fantasy-books.php

must stop googling .....
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Administrator
Posted 2010-10-27 8:17 AM (#2190 - in reply to #2188)
Subject: Re: Adding lists and series



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@htaccess:  You've got some great ideas there!  Thanks for being so thorough.

I really like the best of the decade lists too so that will surely go into our list of lists.  The established or famous lists are weighted toward the older titles for sure.  Some lists with newer stuff would be a nice contrast.

I'm glad you mentioned the women's list.  I've been following the Torque Control discussion and I'm waiting like a lynx to pounce on that list when it comes out.  I think it's going to be probably the best list of it's kind.  A lot of thought is going into that one and I'm excited to see the results.

The SF Signal idea has some potential.  I'll have to look those over.

Great stuff.

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htaccess
Posted 2010-11-13 3:27 PM (#2210 - in reply to #1740)
Subject: Re: Adding lists and series



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Suggestion for a new list: WWEnd Top Winners, like the top Noms list but just featuring winners that have won 2(3?) or more awards.
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Administrator
Posted 2010-11-13 3:44 PM (#2211 - in reply to #2210)
Subject: Re: Adding lists and series



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htaccess - 2010-11-13 3:27 PM Suggestion for a new list: WWEnd Top Winners, like the top Noms list but just featuring winners that have won 2(3?) or more awards.

I thought about doing a Top Winners list but it would really be just a sub-set of the top noms list.  Can't get too excited about that one as it would be too similar to one we've already got.

I think while I wait for the Best Women's SF list to come out I'll concentrate on getting the MilSF list up next.  That will be a pretty good list and prolly better than any other MilSF lists out there.

Keep the ideas coming!

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htaccess
Posted 2010-11-13 5:28 PM (#2214 - in reply to #1740)
Subject: Re: Adding lists and series



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fair enough,

out of interest here is the WWEnd Top Winners list:

5: RENDEZVOUS WITH RAMA - Arthur C. Clarke
5: THE CITY & THE CITY - China Mieville
4: GATEWAY - Frederik Pohl
3: THE FOREVER WAR - Joe Haldeman
3: THE GODS THEMSELVES - Isaac Asimov
3: AMERICAN GODS - Neil Gaiman
3: THE YIDDISH POLICEMAN'S UNION - Michael Chabon
3: DOOMSDAY BOOK - Connie Willis
3: FOREVER PEACE - Joe Haldeman
3: RINGWORLD - Larry Niven
3: THE DISPOSSESSED - Ursula K. Le Guin
3: TIMESCAPE - Gregory Benford
3: THE TIME SHIPS - Stephen Baxter
3: STARTIDE RISING - David Brin
3: SPEAKER FOR THE DEAD - Orson Scott Card
3: THE WINDUP GIRL - Paolo Bacigalupi
3: PALADIN OF SOULS - Lois McMaster Bujold
3: DREAMSNAKE - Vonda N. McIntyre
3: NEUROMANCER - William Gibson
2: CYTEEN - C. J. Cherryh
2: MYTHAGO WOOD - Robert Holdstock
2: ENDER'S GAME - Orson Scott Card
2: PERDIDO STREET STATION - China Mieville
2: HYPERION - Dan Simmons
2: TO SAY NOTHING OF THE DOG - Connie Willis
2: THE FALL OF HYPERION - Dan Simmons
2: THE SCAR - China Mieville
2: MIRROR DANCE - Lois McMaster Bujold
2: THE SNOW QUEEN - Joan D. Vinge
2: THE CHILD GARDEN - Geoff Ryman
2: AIR - Geoff Ryman
2: RED MARS - Kim Stanley Robinson
2: SONG OF TIME - Ian R. MacLeod
2: THE FOUNTAINS OF PARADISE - Arthur C. Clarke
2: WHERE LATE THE SWEET BIRDS SANG - Kate Wilhelm
2: GLORIANA - Michael Moorcock
2: LAST CALL - Tim Powers
2: JONATHAN STRANGE & MR. NORRELL - Susanna Clarke
2: NOVA SWING - M. John Harrison
2: THE LEFT HAND OF DARKNESS - Ursula K. Le Guin
2: IRON COUNCIL - China Mieville
2: BLUE MARS - Kim Stanley Robinson
2: ONLY FORWARD - Michael Marshall Smith
2: THE SWORD OF THE LICTOR - Gene Wolfe
2: ANANSI BOYS - Neil Gaiman
2: GREEN MARS - Kim Stanley Robinson
2: THE SPARROW - Mary Doria Russell
2: THE CLAW OF THE CONCILIATOR - Gene Wolfe
2: THE SHADOW OF THE TORTURER - Gene Wolfe
2: TAKE BACK PLENTY - Colin Greenland
2: RAINBOWS END - Vernor Vinge
2: TEHANU: THE LAST BOOK OF EARTHSEA - Ursula K. Le Guin
2: THE POSTMAN - David Brin
2: THE UPLIFT WAR - David Brin
2: BARRAYAR - Lois McMaster Bujold
2: TITAN - Ben Bova
2: A DEEPNESS IN THE SKY - Vernor Vinge
2: FAIRYLAND - Paul J. McAuley
2: THE SEPARATION - Christopher Priest
2: FOUNDATION'S EDGE - Isaac Asimov
2: THE DIAMOND AGE - Neal Stephenson
2: HELLICONIA SPRING - Brian Aldiss
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Administrator
Posted 2010-12-13 12:57 AM (#2257 - in reply to #2190)
Subject: Re: Adding lists and series



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Administrator - 2010-10-27 8:17 AM

@htaccess:  I'm glad you mentioned the women's list.  I've been following the Torque Control discussion and I'm waiting like a lynx to pounce on that list when it comes out.  I think it's going to be probably the best list of it's kind.  A lot of thought is going into that one and I'm excited to see the results.

I don't know why I didn't think of it before but I could have made a great list of books by women authors based on data I've already got.  Behold:


Award Winning Books by Women Authors

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is a list of the 65 award winning novels written by women authors across all 10 awards that we cover.  What do you think?

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Deven Science
Posted 2010-12-13 2:16 AM (#2258 - in reply to #2257)
Subject: Re: Adding lists and series



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Hey, thanks to looking over this new list, I was able to mark many more books inot the "read" category.

Nice list!
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Administrator
Posted 2010-12-13 11:55 PM (#2260 - in reply to #2258)
Subject: Re: Adding lists and series



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OK, I switched out the graphic for the women's list.  jynnantonnyx gave me grief over using such a cliche image as Rosie the Riveter.  I do like the image he suggested better.

 

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htaccess
Posted 2010-12-14 2:27 PM (#2261 - in reply to #1740)
Subject: Re: Adding lists and series



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like the list, like the image, plenty of books I want to read as usual ... currently reading doomsday book from the list
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Administrator
Posted 2010-12-14 2:36 PM (#2262 - in reply to #2261)
Subject: Re: Adding lists and series



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Location: Dallas, Texas

Glad ya'll like the new list.  I'm kicking myself for not thinking of it before.  There are some great books in there fo sho.

I'm making myself a reading challenge for next year to read 12 books from that list.  I've tagged a bunch already including:

  • Doomsday
  • Dreamsnake
  • Downbelow Station
  • Boneshaker
  • A Door Into Ocean

Which other ones are not to be missed?  Looking for some recommendations here.

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Administrator
Posted 2011-03-29 8:23 AM (#2366 - in reply to #1806)
Subject: Re: Adding lists and series



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Location: Dallas, Texas

In case you missed this in the blog:  SF Mistressworks list by Ian Sales from his blog It Doesn't Have to be Right has been added to WWEnd.

This is a really great list of women authors/books.  Check it out.

 SF Mistressworks

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