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ring around the sun clifford / spoiler
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plasma
Posted 2013-05-29 1:40 PM (#5143)
Subject: ring around the sun clifford / spoiler



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i really enjoyed this book, but there's one thing i didn't understand about the book and i was wondering if someone could clear it up for me

when they find out there's 3 bodies in one at the end, when were the 2 other bodies born (the old guy, and the business man) i don't remember their names

or is there no explanation ? i just can't imagine 2 guys show up on earth at age whatever

when did 1 body turn in to 3 ?

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Scott Laz
Posted 2013-05-30 2:13 PM (#5150 - in reply to #5143)
Subject: RE: ring around the sun clifford / spoiler



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Location: Gunnison, Colorado		Hi, plasma. I read this a few months ago, so here's how I understood it: The mutants didn't have as much manpower as they needed to accomplish all the interventions they wanted to make into society, so they developed lifelike androids. It's not explained very precisely, but it seems that the life force or personality of a volunteer mutant, who is kept in suspended animation, can be transferred into multiple androids, and that these androids (like the protagonist Vickers) may be unaware of their origin as they accomplish their programmed tasks. Exactly when the androids were created is not made clear, but they can be built to simulate any age, which is how Flanders (the old guy) and Vickers could have both come into existence at the same time. When Flanders tells Vickers that he's an android, it is also revealed that there is a third android, and we don't find out until the last page that the third android is Crawford, the businessman who had been trying to stop the mutants throughout the novel. Presumably, by planting Crawford in that position, the mutants were ensuring that the war against them would ultimately be derailed at the last moment. The real Jay Vickers is in suspended animation somewhere, lending his lifeforce to all three androids, whose personalities will eventually be reincorporated back into that original person. That's why, at the end, the android Vickers is wondering whether he will still really exist, and be able to be with his girlfriend (who is also an android, derived from a different person) when this happens.

I was also a little confused at the end, so I skimmed back over the last quarter of the novel in order to sort it out! I thought it was pretty brilliant...
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plasma
Posted 2013-05-30 3:33 PM (#5151 - in reply to #5143)
Subject: Re: ring around the sun clifford / spoiler



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hey thanks a lot for the answer

so yea that makes sence, so 1 android = 3 mutants, i was thinking 3 in to 1

so now do you think all 3 were born mutants ? they must of since Crawford didn't know he was mutant
or
randomly show up on earth at age whatever (which don't really make sence)

yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa that completes the story thanks

finished the ophiuchi hotline yesterday

started nostrallia today
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Scott Laz
Posted 2013-05-30 4:21 PM (#5153 - in reply to #5143)
Subject: Re: ring around the sun clifford / spoiler



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Location: Gunnison, Colorado		I think you might have it reversed. All three of them were androids created by the mutants, with their personalities all derived from the same mutant. Vickers and Crawford didn't know they were androids because they were programmed to think they were human. The androids might as well have been mutants, since they did seem to have mutant psychic powers (like Vickers's "hunch" sense). They were created in order to increase the number of mutant "agents" within the population.

Enjoy the Cordwainer Smith---another favorite of mine!
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plasma
Posted 2013-05-30 5:47 PM (#5154 - in reply to #5143)
Subject: Re: ring around the sun clifford / spoiler



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so 1 mutant would of created jay vickers(suspended animation) which was 3 androids on earth

ok well now i have another question

do you think all 3 were born human and when they were kids and had that experience with the spinner, would of turned androids then ?
or did they have that experience due to being androids

and

does that mean once the suspended animation 1 is created, 3 androids can live even between different worlds (since vickers and flanders were on the world together)

thanks for the help man
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Scott Laz
Posted 2013-05-30 9:33 PM (#5156 - in reply to #5143)
Subject: Re: ring around the sun clifford / spoiler



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Location: Gunnison, Colorado		I think the idea is that the real Vickers (who we never meet in the story) is not an android, but rather a mutant. Somehow, they can extract a mutant's "life force" (or whatever) and use it to animate multiple androids. The androids were never human, but the Vickers and Crawford androids thought they were human, because they were programmed to think that. (Flanders, on the other hand, seems to know all about the mutants plans, and his own android identify, all along, because that is necessary for the role he plays in the plan.) They may never even have been children, but just have those memories implanted. The spinning top was a way of focusing their mental powers in order to move between universes, and they can then each be in whichever universe they choose at any given time. When they are no longer needed, the androids transfer their lives/memories back into the real Vickers, who can then be brought out of suspended animation.
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plasma
Posted 2013-05-31 2:26 PM (#5165 - in reply to #5143)
Subject: Re: ring around the sun clifford / spoiler



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yea +1, thanks for all the help


i just joined ''good reads'' also, here's my profile

i never read, but last year one of my friends got me to read a zombie trilogy which I liked, but then i got in to sci-fi, im really new to it, I like to read books that gives you new ideas and perspectives and that are good from start to end, ill read random books once a while to change it up, examples, i read a steven king book, viking trilogy books

i didn't really like starship troopers (dragging not important stuff, i didn't finish it)

thought enders game was a bit overrated (i understand that book was a new impact but it's kind of predictable and slow moving, it's also a big scale war, id rather read 1 on 1 or you get the idea, so you can get more attached to people)

big fan of clifford simak (constant action, new theories)

and now im venturing in to newauthors

feel free to recommend me stuf
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Scott Laz
Posted 2013-05-31 5:08 PM (#5167 - in reply to #5143)
Subject: RE: ring around the sun clifford / spoiler



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Location: Gunnison, Colorado

Hey, plasma. If you’ve already found Clifford Simak, John Varley, and Cordwainer Smith, I’d say you’re on the right track in looking for some good SF. If you want suggestions, I’d recommend looking at the various book lists on this site. My favorites are the Pringle and Broderick/Di Filippo top 100 lists. Between them, they cover a great selection from 1949 to 2010. WWEnd also has listings of all the major award winners, popular poll selections, and other critical lists. You’re in the right place if you’re looking for the good stuff. If you want recommendations from individual members, you might want to start a new thread, as people might not find your question here. Or you can introduce yourself on this thread…

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plasma
Posted 2013-05-31 5:54 PM (#5169 - in reply to #5143)
Subject: Re: ring around the sun clifford / spoiler



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i can't believe they both have days of the triffids in there, i liked the book, but most of it is apocalypse / running away, not hardcore sci fi, but that's just me
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plasma
Posted 2013-06-02 8:05 AM (#5178 - in reply to #5143)
Subject: Re: ring around the sun clifford / spoiler



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the only thing that's weird about ring around the sun now is that, why would vickers(android) be worried about losing the girl

if he's worried, you would think they would merge in to 1 on the other side, but vickers and flanders were their together, unless if all 3 show up their they might merge, but does that mean flanders and crawford die ? does mutant suspended animation vickers keep all 3 memories ?

or all androids just keeps on living free ? but then why would vickers android worry
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Scott Laz
Posted 2013-06-03 3:03 PM (#5195 - in reply to #5143)
Subject: RE: ring around the sun clifford / spoiler



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Location: Gunnison, Colorado		Hi, plasma. If I remember right, the Vickers android speculated about the same questions you are asking. He doesn't know for sure (and we never learn) exactly what will happen once the android personalities are fed back into the real Vickers mind. Will he still be in love with Ann (I think that was her name), who is also an android and whose mind will end up back in a human body? We don't see what happens, but I thought the implication was that there would be a happy ending for them...
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