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Random quote: "I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence." - J.R.R. Tolkien
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Frodo or Sam?
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LadyLeaf
Posted 2012-07-24 10:08 PM (#3870)
Subject: Frodo or Sam?



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Location: California		Hello to everyone. I'm new here; just registered a couple of minutes ago.

I have a question I've wanted to ask other lovers of fantasy literature, and this seems to be the right place. And hopefully the right time. My question may seem highly controversial or the surprise may be on me and I'll find out it's been asked hundreds of times and I just didn't know. I truly am just curious if there are others who think as my husband and I do, but not trying to begin a long, learned debate. I don't have the time nor the energy for that. Just would really, really like to know if there are other avid fans of Lord of the Rings who believe that the real hero of the story is Samwise and not Frodo. I've read the trilogy at least every 5 years or so since I was about 20 and I'm now in my mid-sixties. Yes, I also saw the movies, though wasn't thrilled. I have read a number of other Tolkien stories, collect books of LOTR artwork, etc. And I've given a lot of thought to this scandalous idea since it first occurred to me about 15 years ago. I'm convinced. But of course respect the conventional view and can't imagine getting angry about this.

I am glad for one thing about the movies; I hear many more kids today are reading the books!

Ubi caritas
LadyLeaf
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Administrator
Posted 2012-07-24 10:47 PM (#3872 - in reply to #3870)
Subject: RE: Frodo or Sam?



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Location: Dallas, Texas

Hello, LadyLeaf and welcome to WWEnd!  We're glad you found us and we hope you'll find lots of good SF/F/H amonst our pages.  I can see you're ready to jump into the conversation already!

I am a huge Tolkien fan and I'm quite comfortable with the idea of Sam being the main character.  The quest would certainly have failed without him and he is the only person to give up the ring of his own free will and without any help.

If you haven't already I suggest you check out The Tolkien Professor podcast.  There's a whole episode (On Masters and Servants) dedicated to the relationship between Frodo and Sam that I think you'll enjoy.  I've read The Lord of the Rings over a dozen times but The Tolkien Professor will show you things you've never seen in the story before.  A must for any fan.

The Tolkien Professor

Cheers!

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Emil
Posted 2012-07-25 1:29 AM (#3873 - in reply to #3872)
Subject: Re: Frodo or Sam?



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Location: Grootfontein, Namibia		Ooh, @LadyLeaf, my wife, who isn't really a fan of fantasy but who enjoyed LOTR, strongly expresses this view as well. I think there are very subtle clues in the books about Sam's role in the journey, starting with his eavesdropping on the conversation between Gandalf and Frodo. I believe Gandalf always knew he was there and called him out on the opportune moment. And we now know the rest. His character is the counterbalance to Frodo's "obsession" with the ring. Is there an instance where Sam carries the ring to Mordor? Sam ends up rejecting the power of the ring, an important scene, as the rejection of power fraught with evil.

Ultimately, though - and we should not forget this - it is Frodo that carries the burden and his quest (similar to a via dolorosa) lies at the heart of the story. It is Frodo that enters Mordor, and he ends up leaving Middle Earth, whilst Sam remains. Sam is a hero among a cast of heroes, but it's heroism borne from loyalty and love. Herein lies the importance of Sam's character.

Frodo and Sam certainly are a team, and without each other's pivotal roles, the task would not have been completed. Frodo must carry the ring, Sam must carry Frodo. These are among the many facts why I more than love this book. Each character, even Gollum, have their roles to play. Tolkien makes extensive use of duality and parallelism and contrast and opposition - where better is this evident than the relationship between Frodo and Sam?
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dustydigger
Posted 2012-07-25 2:30 AM (#3874 - in reply to #3873)
Subject: Re: Frodo or Sam?



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Location: UK		Hi Ladyleaf,and welcome!.I too first read LOTR many moons ago,in1967,and many times since.But not since I saw the film.I darent go back to the books in case I see the film actors instead of my own ideal pictures! lol.I was not too taken with the film version of Sam,I must say,though I thought Frodo was spot on.
Yes this was certainly a team with both being necessary.I think I know what is going to be your first book added on the site! I look forward to seeing your favourite books.
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LadyLeaf
Posted 2012-07-26 8:18 PM (#3883 - in reply to #3872)
Subject: RE: Frodo or Sam?



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Location: California		Thanks for the welcome, Admin Friend, and the referral to The Tolkien Professor, which I'll definitely sample. You said ". . . you'll find lots of good SF/F/H amonst our pages." That's exactly the reason I joined! There's so many books published each year I need help finding a good read, and a short tour of this site impressed me a lot.

Re: Sam and Frodo and my theory, I was sorry to see I only got three responses so far out of 30-some views, but yours and the 2 others were welcoming, provided good food for thought, and have the "let's not fight about this" attitude I was hoping for. Maybe I was too polite for others, haha. (I'm allergic to emoticons, BTW).

Being called to dinner, so have to go back to reality for now.


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dustydigger
Posted 2012-07-27 11:25 AM (#3884 - in reply to #3883)
Subject: Re: Frodo or Sam?



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Location: UK		Ladyleaf,we have a lot of shy fawns hiding out in the woods here,they peep out then retire.We are still trying to entice them.So three replies would be par for the course.But as for fighting or disparaging,not so much.We have a good diversity of reading tastes,though some of the guys are very erudite and make me feel totally ignorant !.This is certainly the place to learn more about SF<Fantasy,and Horror of all kind.I am so glad I found this group two months ago.Please feel free to join in the genre game,its good fun and I am coming across loads of great reads from members choices.
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alchymyst
Posted 2012-07-27 12:48 PM (#3885 - in reply to #3870)
Subject: Re: Frodo or Sam?



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Location: Washington, DC		This is actually not the first time I've heard this theory. If you just google 'Sam is the real hero of LOTR', you'll see a lot of hits. I think it's a testament to Tolkien's genius that one can discover something new every day about his works, and the well has not run dry yet.
And welcome, LadyLeaf, I'm new here too!
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Scott Laz
Posted 2012-07-27 5:42 PM (#3889 - in reply to #3870)
Subject: Re: Frodo or Sam?



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Posts: 263
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Location: Gunnison, Colorado		For the last couple of days I've been reading "A Short History of Fantasy" by Farah Mendlesohn and Edward James, and this question is briefly addressed. They discuss the creation of the hobbits as being inspired by the "little men" who showed such heroism in fighting WWI (which Tolkien had fought in). A couple of quotes: Each is "ripped unwillingly from his familiar world and sent out to deal with consequences of decisions made by great men. The stoicism of the English Tommy is also the context for Sam Gamgee, who is modelled on the canny and loyal English batman, and is in many ways the real hero of The Lord of the Rings and of the restoration of the Shire/England at the end of the novel." In discussing the the important innovations Tolkien created, one was that he "took the companion structure of traditional folk tales [e.g., The Wizard of Oz] and reinvigorated it by marrying it with what Joseph Campbell in 1949 argued was the archetypal hero's journey, and then complicating it by having more than one hero, each of whom (Aragorn, Frodo, Sam, Faramir, Merry, Pippin, and Eowyn), follow the path Campbell outlined in very distinct ways." So there's an academic take on it. It seems to be in agreement with the other responses...

The question caught my eye since I was just reading those passages yesterday, but I haven't actually read LOTR since I was 12! I'm looking forward to trying it again in the near future...
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