|
|
Veteran
Posts: 207
| Do you have any books that you think are absolutely fantastic that you would score a 10 but for some reason they never got any awards?
Mine would be Schild's Ladder by Greg Egan.
I'm interested to know what others think. |
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 202
Location: Sacramento, California | Armor, by John Steakley. I love this book, but don't believe it won any awards or anything. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 17
| Deven Science - 2010-01-03 4:24 PM
Armor, by John Steakley. I love this book, but don't believe it won any awards or anything.
I second that!
Armor is a great book. The battle scenes are very well written. This is one of those books I hated to finish.
It shares many of the same elements as Starship Troopers and Forever War as far as technology goes.
It is much darker, though.
Too bad, Steakley has only written two books, Armor and Vampire$ (very liberally adapted into John Carpenter's Vampires). |
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 202
Location: Sacramento, California | @MT in Austin,
Yeah, once I finished, I was bummed that he didn't have more books to pick up and read. |
|
| |
|
Admin
Posts: 4004
Location: Dallas, Texas | @htaccess: I've never read Egan before but have heard good things about him. We've only got Permutation City in the DB right now. @Deven Science and MT in Austin: I was really intrigued with Armor when it came out but had forgotten about it. Thanks for the reminder. Too bad there was no sequel. So, what do you guys think of an "Overlooked Books" list? We can use this thread to post recommendations and then vote or something to determine a list of say 50 books. I'll add them to the DB and build a list page for them. It could be a running list that we can add to as we go along until we reach 100.
Some thoughts: - We can start with 10 and add more in stages - maybe 10 at a time. Easier for me to add them to the DB and easier to come up with a shorter list to get the ball rolling.
- There should be a minimum of noms needed for a book to be considered. Armor has been nominated and seconded so far. How about 3 or maybe 5 thumbs up?
- Should it be a simple free-for-all pick any book you think of or should we pick books from specific years? The best book in 1995 that was overlooked by Hugo and Nebula etc.? The latter is more work but we would end up with a more representative list in the long run methinks.
- Just SF or SF/F combined?
- How do you quantify "overlooked"? Never got a single nomination for the 10 awards here on the site? I like that idea because it means we'd get more new books added to the site.
Do you think we can get enough participation to make a go of this? I'm not so sure but it's fun to think about at any rate. What do you guys think? Any suggestions?
|
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 17
| Sounds good to me.
"Overlooked" could also mean forgotten. Not necessarily from unknown authors but lesser know books as well.
I like the "not nominated" criteria although there are so many awards that it's hard for a good book not to at least get a nod from somewhere.
|
|
| |
|
New User
Posts: 2
Location: Suzhou, China | David Wingrove's Chung Kuo series is one of my all-time favorites. And I hardly see it mentioned anywhere! |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 17
| I would submit Craig Shaw Gardner's original work as overlooked as a whole.
His writing is similar to that of Terry Pratchett. Silly English humor (though he is American) and loads of fun.
The first two, The Ebenezum Trilogy and The Ballad of Wuntor, are my favorites.
These series, in particular, are much fun.
Ebenezum
1. A Malady of Magicks (1986)
2. A Multitude of Monsters (1986)
3. A Night in the Netherhells (1987)
Wuntvor
1. A Difficulty with Dwarves (1987)
2. An Excess of Enchantments (1988)
3. A Disagreement with Death (1989)
The Cineverse Cycle
1. Slaves of the Volcano God (1989)
2. Bride of the Slime Monster (1990)
3. Revenge of the Fluffy Bunnies (1990)
Arabian Nights
1. The Other Sinbad (1991)
2. A Bad Day for Ali Baba (1992)
3. The Last Arabian Night (1993)
CSG also wrote "serious" fantasy and several film novelizations. I haven't read those.
Edited by MT in Austin 2010-05-29 9:19 AM
|
|
| |
|
Admin
Posts: 4004
Location: Dallas, Texas | BigBen - 2010-05-20 7:04 PM David Wingrove's Chung Kuo series is one of my all-time favorites. And I hardly see it mentioned anywhere! 
I found this old thread the other day and I thought I'd get some of these books added to the database. The Chung Kuo series is in now. Gardner is next. If you've got any series that you like that we don't have in our database post it here and I'll get it added.
|
|
| |
|
Admin
Posts: 75
Location: Dallas, TX | Administrator - 2011-03-13 11:33 AM
If you've got any series that you like that we don't have in our database post it here and I'll get it added.
I hear the Twilight series is quite popular  |
|
| |
|
Admin
Posts: 4004
Location: Dallas, Texas | whargoul -I hear the Twilight series is quite popular That's the sort of thing that could get you banned.
|
|
| |
|
Admin
Posts: 4004
Location: Dallas, Texas | MT in Austin - 2010-05-29 9:19 AM I would submit Craig Shaw Gardner's original work as overlooked as a whole. His writing is similar to that of Terry Pratchett. Silly English humor (though he is American) and loads of fun.      All the Gardner books are in now: 5 trilogies. The first of each are pictured above and link to the trilogy list for each set. Enjoy!
|
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 857
Location: The Wilds of Washington | How about Madeleine L'Engle's time Quintet? No nods from the SF awards but boatloads from the childrens book awards. |
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 857
Location: The Wilds of Washington | There's John Christopher's Tripod foursome. It's fading away. I don't know if that qualifies as overlooked. |
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 857
Location: The Wilds of Washington | I've got one more, at the moment. Alexander Key's, The Case of the Vanishing Boy. I just read the reviews of the book over at Amazon. All three had a fondness for this book. I agree. This one is something kids reread and adults pass on to the kids, even if it hasn't been reprinted in years. An overlooked classic. |
|
| |
|
Admin
Posts: 4004
Location: Dallas, Texas | @galleyangel: I'm in the middle of putting all the "SF Mistressworks" books into the DB right now. I'll check out these recommendations once I'm through with that. Thanks for posting. |
|
| |
|
Admin
Posts: 4004
Location: Dallas, Texas | gallyangel - 2011-03-27 3:09 AM There's John Christopher's Tripod foursome. It's fading away. I don't know if that qualifies as overlooked. Tripods are in now with some nice 2003 reprint editions from Simon Pulse. We definitely want to get more Young Adult books in our DB but the other books you mentioned are more for children than YA which is outside our baileywick. Thanks for the recommendations and keep them coming!     |
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 857
Location: The Wilds of Washington | How about C.J. Cherryh's Wave Without A Shore? That's another one which is long out of print, but probably could support a larger circle of readers. One of the themes of the book is unseeing parts of reality, which is exactly what drove Mieville's The City and The City. I wonder if Mieville has read Wave or took inspiration from it? Unseeing reality, since the main character is an artist, that sounds like a very stupid or at the very least, a limiting position for any artist to take. |
|
| |
|
Admin
Posts: 4004
Location: Dallas, Texas |  |
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 857
Location: The Wilds of Washington | How about these two from Hal Clement: Needle and it's sequel, Through the Eye of the Needle?
Doesn't Needle have the first use of a symbiotic parring between a human and an alien? That would make it slightly important in the history of SF innovation.
You only have two books in the database by Clement and he's seems to be one of the golden age authors who's fading fast. Adding another two by him might be a good idea. |
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 857
Location: The Wilds of Washington | I was wondering about the Hitchhikers series.
Are you going to include Eoin Colfer's And Another Thing... as well since it does continue the series? |
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 857
Location: The Wilds of Washington |
Have you considered adding the second Foundation Trilogy?
Foundation's Triumph by Brin
Foundation and Chaos by Bear
Foundation's Fear by Benford
Three heavy hitters at work there. |
|
| |
|
Admin
Posts: 4004
Location: Dallas, Texas | @Galleyangel: Lots of Hal Clement coming, stay tuned! I just put Hitchhiker's in last week. Guess I should have included And Another Thing! I'll get it soon. The Killer B's! Another obvious series I've overlooked... and I read them too! Thanks for the suggestions. |
|
| |
|
Admin
Posts: 4004
Location: Dallas, Texas | Ask and ye shall receive....  
|
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 237
Location: Grootfontein, Namibia | The Man Who Fell To Earth - Walter Tevis |
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 857
Location: The Wilds of Washington | How about Douglas Adams and his Dirk Gently twosome? I'm thinking a lot of us have a special fondness in our hearts for the mad, and that's not mentioning that he's one of those one D adams types. Two Ds are always better. |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 207
| I just went to a book sale and picked up a bunch of stuff including, "Lord of Light" by Zelazny, not overlooked but a favorite of mine and one I look forward to re-reading. The other, is a genuine overlooked book, "The Dosadi Experiment" by Frank Herbert, I enjoyed this book far far more then Dune or any of its sequels. Terrible cover though.
Interestingly enough wikipedia claims it was in the running for the 1978 Locus Award (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dosadi_Experiment) but I don't see it in in WWEnd, anyone know what the deal is? |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 207
| Hmm, http://www.locusmag.com/SFAwards/Db/Locus1978.html looks like WWEnd doesn't list all the Locus nominees. As far as I can tell there is no implied order among the nominees but wwend only has the first four. Dave, care to comment? Is there any way the remaining nominated books could get added? |
|
| |
|
Admin
Posts: 4004
Location: Dallas, Texas | htaccess - 2011-07-09 3:00 AM Hmm, http://www.locusmag.com/SFAwards/Db/Locus1978.html looks like WWEnd doesn't list all the Locus nominees. As far as I can tell there is no implied order among the nominees but wwend only has the first four. Dave, care to comment? Is there any way the remaining nominated books could get added? We do in fact list all the nominees, or rather, finalists. What we don't list is all the books on the Locus recommended reading list. Let me explain: - The books on the list are not actually "nominees." It's a "recommended reading" list put forth by Locus editors for Locus readers. Those readers can vote for books other than what's on the list too which means that, at least theoretically, a novel not on the list could win the award. From Locus: "Locus publishes a "recommended reading" list in its February issue, when the poll ballot is distributed. Though poll voting is not limited to works on this list, some feel the recommendations are overly influential." - Locus voters choose up to 5 ranked nominations per category. This is where "recommended" books become "nominees." We're following the convention that Locus eventually moved to and listing the top 5 as "finalists." From Locus: "Readers make up to five ranked nominations per category; votes are tabulated according to the 'Carr' system, awarding a first-place vote 8 points, second-place vote 7 points, etc. The leader in each category is declared the winner. Beginning 2005, the top five finishers in each category were revealed as 'finalists' prior to announcement of the winners at a public event." - There are just too many! Some years there are up to 30 books listed for each category. If it was still a combined SF and Fantasy award (the award split in 1978) that would mean 60 books on the list. Can you imagine 60 Hugo nominees? Can you name 30 other books that should have made the nominee list for any award? Even 10? We look at the recommended reading list as a "long list" like the one put out for the Clarke or BFA. Anyway, I hope that makes sense. You can read more about it all on the Locus site and see the full recommended lists. As for The Dosadi Experiment, it came in 7th place so missed the finalists cutoff. It was in the running in that it was on the recommended reading list but really any book published in 1977 was in the running since it was an open ballot. It might be interesting to see what books were written in over the years. I do see that we have the Locus finalists labeled as nominees. I'll change that to help clarify. Let me know if you have any questions. I'm really surprised that this has not come up before. What I want to know is do you guys think we should put in the Young Adult Novel or First Novel categories?
|
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 27
Location: Canada | Dirk Gently twosome. Dosadi Experiment. Yes. Had forgotten about those. And Herbert's twosome, Destination void and the Jesus Incident.
Also: despite his mainstream popularity, Im puzzled why Michael Crichton is not in the database.
The Andromeda Strain, involving a near-future what if alien microbes got to earth, was very influential to me at the time (also ranked #37 at http://classics.jameswallaceharris.com). Then, of course, there was Jurassic Park, and Prey, both near-future what ifs involving DNA and nanobot propagation, so again broadly Sci-Fi in my opinion. Sphere is about an alien spacecraft in the deep ocean, and Timeline is very much in the same sub-genre as many of Connie Willis books.
|
|
| |
|
Admin
Posts: 4004
Location: Dallas, Texas | @Blue gargoyle: You bring up some good points that have always puzzled me too. Crichton belongs in SF IMO. I suspect he sells better outside the genre than in though. He's not in our DB because we didn't think of adding him yet. If you look closely you'll find lots of oversights which is why I love this thread. I'm constantly surprised about the obvious books I've missed so keep telling us what you want to see added and we'll do our best to get 'em all in there. I'll get you some Crichton soon! |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 35
| Damn, you spoiled some of my thunder by mentioning Crichton. I am putting together a list of sci-fi books that are underrated and Crichton absolutely makes the list. Andromeda Strain. Jurassic Park. Hello? I mean come on! Even if you didn't think his later work was as good (I agree, not as good... though I exclude State of Fear from that generalization since it was a political book) his absence from even being nominated is scandalously conspicuous. |
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 857
Location: The Wilds of Washington | If you're thinking about Herbert's The Jesus Effect, I believe it's the first book in a threesome he co-wrote with Bill Ransom. It's been a long time since I read those babies.
And as to Crichton, I think he purposely gets overlooked by the SF people because he's so popular. It's like they penalize mainstream success. I think The Road fits into this as well. A searing postapocalyptic novel, but no nods from any of the major SF awards. I guess Cormac is not part of the SF club, so that's that. Ignore him. |
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 237
Location: Grootfontein, Namibia | "The Road" is a novel one should not ignore. Sadly that the SF faternity did so. They (we) would have had a Pulitzer prize winner. Opportunity missed. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 27
Location: Canada | Galley Angel - Thnx for the correction, re: Jesus effect. Never read the third (wasn't even aware of it - probably because I'd grown bored of his Dune series). Should have wiki'ed it before posting (Dosadi was the 'duology'.
Admin- Not blaming you for not thinking to add Crichton (UR doing an awesome job with the site), more agree with Wintermute that the problem was with the awards nominators overlooking him.
Two other authors I think are worthy of eventual inclusion in the database (not necessarily overlooked for awards, but I enjoyed the few books of each that I've read); both are probably best known for novel adaptions of/or screenplays:
James Khan (novelized one of the Star Wars movies, wrote Star Trek TNG, VOY episodes, etc) for the SFi/Fan "Time" trilogy - only ever managed to get hold of the first installment "World Enough and Time"
Alan Dean Foster (Alien, Star Wars, Star Trek TMP etc) for "sentenced to prism", spellsinger SFan series, etc. |
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 202
Location: Sacramento, California | Alan Dean Foster has some fun novels that aren't related to his film novelizations. Jed the Dead is a standout. |
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 857
Location: The Wilds of Washington | How about Carl Sagan's Contact? If I remember correctly, the whole concept of worm holes as an actual physical possibility, was fleshed out for this novel. And the effect of the novel in the 80ies we mustn't underestimate.
|
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 857
Location: The Wilds of Washington | RE: Frank Herbert's Dosadi Experiment and Jesus Incident.
Since we mentioned these two, this is what the wiki says about both - if you do add them, you can get the whole series.
WorShip novels:
Destination: Void: Serial publication: Galaxy, August 1965, as "Do I Wake or Dream?" First edition: New York: Berkeley, 1966 revised in 1978.
The Jesus Incident (with Bill Ransom): Serial publication: Analog, February 1979.
The Lazarus Effect (with Bill Ransom), New York: G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1983.
The Ascension Factor (with Bill Ransom), New York: G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1988.
ConSentient novels:
Whipping Star: Serial publication: Worlds of If, January April 1970. First edition: New York: G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1970.
The Dosadi Experiment: Serial publication: Galaxy, May August 1977 "The Dosadi Experiment". First edition: New York: G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1977.
|
|
| |
|
New User
Posts: 3
Location: UK probably at work if I am online. | I notice a distinct lack of short stories in the lists is there a reason for this that I have missed? |
|
| |
|
Admin
Posts: 4004
Location: Dallas, Texas | Case Kipple - 2011-08-10 3:27 AM I notice a distinct lack of short stories in the lists is there a reason for this that I have missed? WWEnd's focus is on novels. We started by collecting all the award nominated books for the 10 awards we cover then we expanded to iclude all the realted series books and other books by the nominated authors and finally we started adding "best of" lists like the Classics of SF and SF Masterworks etc. The goal was/is to get to the best books first then fill in from there. Our next expansion will be to start adding new awards like the Mythopoetic and Stoker awards and something more geared for Young Adults. We HAVE added a lot of anthologies to the DB like Dozois' The Year's Best Science Fiction, the Eclipse series by Jonathan Strahan and Asimov's Before the Golden Age series. In addition we have many collections like The Collected Stories of Roger Zelazny (6 volumes), The Collected Short Works of Poul Anderson (4 volumes) and of course 20 books of short stories by Harlan Ellison plus many other short story collections by various authors throughout the site. Taken all together there are many thousands of short stories to be had even if, by volume, they are a rather small percentage of the thousands of books we have in total. We're certainly not opposed to short fiction, I'm particularly fond of it myself, it's just not our focus. But now that you've made me think about it, we should probably start adding some anthology awards or best of lists to help round things out a bit more. Hmmm. I'll have to think about that and do some research. Do you have any in mind that you'd like to see? Anybody else? The Hugo Award for Anthologies springs to mind as a no-brainer. Thanks for posting your question. You've given me lots to think about. We love getting feedback and ideas from our members. Afterall, it's your site too and we always try to add features and books that you guys want to see. Keep 'em coming. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 29
| the full spectrum series maybe?
http://www.amazon.com/Full-Spectrum-5-Jennifer-Hershey/dp/055337400...
i've only read #5, but quite liked it. |
|
| |
|
New User
Posts: 3
Location: UK probably at work if I am online. |
How about Virtual Unrealities by Alfred Bester or Burning Chrome by William Gibson.
Both excellent reads with very different styles I prefer the Gibson but thats just my thing
at the moment, loving the hard edged lowlife of cyberpunk. |
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 237
Location: Grootfontein, Namibia | I think you should consider adding The Common Wealth Saga by Hamilton. Also, Echo Round His Bones, from Disch. |
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 237
Location: Grootfontein, Namibia | How about "The Compleat Traveller" - John Brunner. A fantasy classic! |
|
| |
|
Admin
Posts: 4004
Location: Dallas, Texas | I combed back through this thread and collected all the titles you guys have requested. The links are obviously the books I've gotten to so far - a little more than half. Not too bad all things considered. I'll keep plugging away at these and will periodically update this list with the ones I've added to the DB and other requests you guys submit. - Schild's Ladder by Greg Egan
- Armor by John Steakley
- Chung Kuo by David Wingrove
- Ebenezum by Craig Shaw Gardner
- Wuntvor by Craig Shaw Gardner
- The Cineverse Cycle by Craig Shaw Gardner
- Arabian Nights by Craig Shaw Gardner
- The Tripods by John Christopher
- The Case of the Vanishing Boy by Alexander Key
- Wave Without a Shore by C.J. Cherryh
- Needle Series by Hal Clement
- And Another Thing... by Eoin Colfer's
- Second Foundation Trilogy
- The Man Who Fell to Earth by Walter Tevis
- Dirk Gently by Douglas Adams
- Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency
- The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul
- The Andromeda Strain by Michael Crichton
- Jurassic Park by Michael Crichton
- Prey by Michael Crichton
- Sphere by Michael Crichton
- Timeline by Michael Crichton
- Alien by Alan Dean Foster
- Splinter of the Mind's Eye by Alan Dean Foster
- Spellsinger by Alan Dean Foster
- Spellsinger
- The Hour of the Gate
- The Day of the Dissonance
- The Moment of the Magician
- The Paths of the Perambulator
- The Time of the Transference
- Son of Spellsinger
- Chorus Skating
- Jed the Dead by Alan Dean Foster
- Contact by Carl Sagan
- WorShip by Frank Herbert
- Destination: Void
- The Jesus Incident (with Bill Ransom)
- The Lazarus Effect (with Bill Ransom)
- The Ascension Factor (with Bill Ransom)
- Whipping Star by Frank Herbert
- The Dosadi Experiment by Frank Herbert
- Virtual Unrealities by Alfred Bester
- Burning Chrome by William Gibson
- Echo Round His Bones by Thomas M. Disch
- The Commonwealth Saga by Peter F. Hamilton
- Pandora's Star
- Judas Unchained
- The Compleat Traveller by John Brunner
You'll notice that we don't have any Michael Crichton or Alan Dean Foster in the DB yet which is a huge oversight. I'll probably start with those. Keep 'em coming.
|
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 29
| vortex by robert charles wilson
lovecraft? |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 14
Location: Rhode Island | Harry Turtledove's "Worldwar" series continueing on to the "Colonization" series. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 29
| frank baum's oz series? |
|
| |
|
Admin
Posts: 4004
Location: Dallas, Texas | splunge52 - 2011-08-29 12:06 PM Harry Turtledove's "Worldwar" series continueing on to the "Colonization" series. I've got Turtledove on another list of books that I want to add already so stand by for those.
|
|
| |
|
Admin
Posts: 4004
Location: Dallas, Texas | nate1234 - 2011-08-30 3:21 AM frank baum's oz series? Vortex sure and certainly Lovecraft! We were taken to task for not having any on the site by a couple people at Worldcon. Oz is a little out of our demographic I'm afraid.
|
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 39
| How about David Ohle? Motorman. The Age of Sinatra, The Pisstown Chaos. Loosely a trilogy. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 29
| against a dark background by iain m banks
(sf but not culture series) |
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 857
Location: The Wilds of Washington | It's good to see Crichton on the list. My personal favorite is Sphere.
Have anyone asked about the chronicles of Prydain by Lloyd Alexander? The book of three, the black caldron, the high king - they're classics in fantasy. And hey, just looking them up for this post, I found out that Alexander wrote a sixth Prydain book, re-released in 2006 - The Foundling and other tales of Prydain. I had no idea. I'd just knew about the five main books.
Edited by gallyangel 2011-09-07 1:01 AM
|
|
| |
|
Admin
Posts: 4004
Location: Dallas, Texas | gallyangel - 2011-09-07 12:51 AM It's good to see Crichton on the list. My personal favorite is Sphere. Have anyone asked about the chronicles of Prydain by Lloyd Alexander? The book of three, the black caldron, the high king - they're classics in fantasy. And hey, just looking them up for this post, I found out that Alexander wrote a sixth Prydain book, re-released in 2006 - The Foundling and other tales of Prydain. I had no idea. I'd just knew about the five main books. I've never heard of LLoyd Alexander so I looked him up. Looks like his books are more kids/tweens, 9-12, but I have been putting a few younger than Young Adult books in so I'll likely add these too. We're going to have to do something about the YA and younger books though to differentiate them from the adult books first. I'll have to noodle on that. The Crichton books have been added as well as a bunch of the other books in this thread. I'll post the updated list tonight or tomorrow. |
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 39
| Do none of the major awards have a YA category? |
|
| |
|
Admin
Posts: 4004
Location: Dallas, Texas | charlesdee - 2011-09-07 8:09 AM Do none of the major awards have a YA category? Hugo does. It's one that I've been keen to add to the site too. Just haven't found the time yet. What I think we'll end up doing is adding a few more categories for books. I want to split Horror out from Fantas so we can have sub-genres for those. Right now they're all just lumped in as Dark Fantasy. Then create Young Adult and Youth? categories so you can sort for just those books. The more I think about it the more I like having some younger books in the database to help parents find books to start their kids on genre fiction. My 10 year old daughter just picked up The Girl Who Circumnavigated Fairyland in a Ship of Her Own Making and she's excited to be reading a book from daddy's web site. I have to admit I'm excited too. |
|
| |
|
Admin
Posts: 4004
Location: Dallas, Texas | List Update: My thanks to jynnantonnyx for doing the data entry on the last batch! I'll start a new list with the last few you guys have submitted. Keep 'em coming!
|
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 29
| a clockwork rocket by greg egan |
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 237
Location: Grootfontein, Namibia | Speaking of Greg Egan, there is an accessible collection of short stories by him, originally published in 1995(?) and then again reissued in 2008 named "Axiomatic" that is a considerably easier introduction to his work than any of his other novels. Anyone who wants to comprehend Egan's artistry and audacity needs to read this collection. |
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 770
Location: SC, USA | The Mythopoetic Awards (which I know is on Dave's list to add) has a YA category that started in 1992.
http://www.mythsoc.org/awards/fantasy/ |
|
| |
|
Admin
Posts: 4004
Location: Dallas, Texas | I've not gotten very far with the Mythopoetic Awards because of the convention and other site updates etc. but you're right - they split the award into 2 categories in 1992. They call the category "Children's". I wonder how they define it? It looks like a mix of YA and children's to me.
I've got 96 books left to add for the adult list and 95 for the children's. Egads!
|
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 29
| i think this is all the gene wolfe still missing:
Novels:
Operation Ares (1970)
The Devil in a Forest (1976)
Castleview (1990)
Pandora, By Holly Hollander (1990)
Story collections:
The Island of Doctor Death and Other Stories and Other Stories (1980)
Storeys from the Old Hotel (1988)
Endangered Species (1989)
Castle of Days (1992)
Strange Travelers (2000)
Innocents Aboard (2004)
Starwater Strains (2005)
The Best of Gene Wolfe (2009) |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 207
| nate1234: Not sure a clockwork rocket by greg egan can be considered overlooked as its pretty new, I'm hoping it won't be overlooked  |
|
| |
|
Admin
Posts: 4004
Location: Dallas, Texas | nate1234 - 2011-08-28 5:19 PM vortex by robert charles wilson lovecraft?    
    |
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 857
Location: The Wilds of Washington | How about: Don't Panic The Official Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy Companion by Neil Gaiman. Two points: the whole six part trilogy is part of the database and Gaiman has contributed how many books to this database?
Two pennies drop. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 29
| eyes of the dragon by stephen king? |
|
| |
|
Admin
Posts: 4004
Location: Dallas, Texas | nate1234 - 2011-10-12 10:15 PM eyes of the dragon by stephen king? We just added a ton of Stephen King books as part of the Bram Stoker Award but not Eyes of the Dragon which happens to be the only Stephen King book I've ever read. Now that the Stoker is up and running I'll start getting some of these books added. I've got some catching up to do! |
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 857
Location: The Wilds of Washington | Cherie Priest, her clockwork century series is expanding to five books. So says her website.
Fiddlehead (steampunk: fall 2013, Tor)
Inexplicable (steampunk: fall 2012, Tor)
Ganymede, Tor Books 2011
Dreadnought, Tor Books 2010
Boneshaker, Tor Books 2009
She's just-a pounding that keyboard. You go, girl.
|
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 857
Location: The Wilds of Washington | Frederik Pohl
The gateway trip: tales and vignettes of the heechee
this one seems to be left out. |
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 857
Location: The Wilds of Washington | You've got Dracula in the system. How could you not when dealing with horror? So how about the sequel from an actual Stoker descendant. It's the right time of year for it.
Dracula: the Un-dead by Dacre Stoker
|
|
| |
|
Admin
Posts: 4004
Location: Dallas, Texas | |
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 857
Location: The Wilds of Washington | How about the rest of the Professor Challenger stories by Doyle? You already have the lost world and the poison belt in the database. Doyle only has three other Challenger stories: when the world screamed, the disintegration machine, and the land of mist. I think it's interesting SF from the 20ies, which shows where SF and science was then.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbook...
This book contains those three. Or there are books which contain all of the challenger stories.
|
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 63
Location: Zagreb | Larry Niven, Jerry Pournelle, Steven Barnes: Legacy of Heorot.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Legacy-of-Heorot-ebook/dp/B004Q9TC8C/ref=...
It's neither my favor book nor my favor subgenre, but its well written and fun read. Probably it could be in Larry Niven page. It's about isolated colony somewhere in space fighting alien monster. But this alien could really eat for breakfast one from Cameron movie.
I like most the cover for Kindle. |
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 857
Location: The Wilds of Washington | The earthsea cycle by Le Guin is incomplete. Tales of Earthsea is missing. The cycle is six books not five.
Edited by gallyangel 2011-11-07 6:27 PM
|
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 237
Location: Grootfontein, Namibia | Excellent! Axiomatic is in, so now I can read it |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 29
| i think these are the cherryh books currently not currently included, minus the omnibuses (and theres a few of those):
COLLECTIONS:
▪ Sunfall (1981)short stories and novelettes
▪ Visible Light (1986)short stories, novelettes and novellas
▪ Glass and Amber (1987)short stories and essays
▪ The Collected Short Fiction of C. J. Cherryh (2004
NOVELS:
▪ Angel With the Sword (1985)
▪ Heavy Time (1991)
▪ Hellburner (1992)
▪ Port Eternity (1982)
▪ Brothers of Earth (1976)
▪ Hunter of Worlds (1977)
▪ Gate of Ivrel (1976)
▪ Well of Shiuan (1978)
▪ Fires of Azeroth (1979)
▪ Exile's Gate (1988)
▪ The Scapegoat (1985)novella
▪ Rider at the Gate (1995)
▪ Cloud's Rider (1996)
▪ Hestia (1979)
▪ Fortress of Dragons (2000)
▪ Fortress of Ice (2006)
▪ The Dreamstone (1983 novel)rewrite of the 1979 short story "The Dreamstone" and the novelette "Ealdwood"
▪ The Tree of Swords and Jewels (1983 novel)
▪ The Gates of Hell (1986), novel with Janet Morris
▪ Kings in Hell (1986), novel with Janet Morris
▪ Legions of Hell (1987)
▪ The Brothers (1986)novella
▪ The Goblin Mirror (1992)
▪ Faery in Shadow (1993)
▪ Faery Moon (2009)a major revision of Faery in Shadow, plus its prequel, The Brothers
▪ Lois & Clark: A Superman Novel (1996)
http://www.amazon.com/Lois-Clark-Superman-C-J-Cherryh/dp/0761511695...
Edited by nate1234 2011-12-03 2:06 AM
|
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 857
Location: The Wilds of Washington | The earthsea cycle by Le Guin is incomplete. Tales of Earthsea is missing. The cycle is six books not five.
I'd add to that that her Hainish cycle is also one short in the database. Le Guin's Four Ways of Forgiveness is also part of that universe. And we even get to see a slice of life on the world Hain.
|
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 237
Location: Grootfontein, Namibia | How about adding some of Pohl's older short story collections, such as "The Man Who Ate the World", "The Case Against Tomorrow" and "Tomorrow Times Seven"? |
|
| |
|
Admin
Posts: 4004
Location: Dallas, Texas | Emil - 2012-01-06 1:47 PM How about adding some of Pohl's older short story collections, such as "The Man Who Ate the World", "The Case Against Tomorrow" and "Tomorrow Times Seven"? It happens that now is a great time to add those books. Pohl is a Grand Master and we're about to launch our Grand Master Reading Challenge. I'll add them to my list. |
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 237
Location: Grootfontein, Namibia | Aha, seeing you'll be doing that, how about L. Sprague de Camp's "Viagens Interplanetarias" series:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viagens_Interplanetarias
I'm flooding my Galaxy Tablet Kindle Android App with e-books for the challenge! |
|
| |
|
Admin
Posts: 4004
Location: Dallas, Texas | Here ya go: Frederik Pohl L. Sprague de Camp |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 11
Location: Karachi, Pakistan | Hello,
Any chance of adding David Pringle's list of 100 Best Modern Fantasy Novels to the database and book lists?
http://www.librarything.com/bookaward/David+Pringle%27s+Mod... |
|
| |
|
Admin
Posts: 4004
Location: Dallas, Texas | iftyzaidi - 2012-01-19 3:48 AM Hello, Any chance of adding David Pringle's list of 100 Best Modern Fantasy Novels to the database and book lists? That is the most often requested list right now. We're a little over halfway through it now but it got bumped a bit because of the GMRC. We'll get back on it shortly. I'll post updates in the Adding lists and series thread as we go along. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 11
Location: Karachi, Pakistan | Ah, thanks! Sorry for posting my request here - I'm new to the site (and a wonderful site it is too, may I add). I'll just head over to the Adding lists thread then... |
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 794
| While you're on the C. J. Cherryh thing her Morgaine cycle is a big omission.
Gate of Ivrel
Well of Shiuan
Fires of Azeroth
Then there's her Ealdwood novels The Dreamstone and The Tree of Swords and Jewels |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 29
| i believe exile's gate is part of the morgaine series, but not in the omnibus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exile%27s_Gate |
|
| |
|
Admin
Posts: 4004
Location: Dallas, Texas | @iftyzaidi: I'm glad you're finding WWEnd to your liking! No problem on your post I just wanted to make sure you didn't miss the discussion in the other thread. You guys have been giving us lots of great list ideas over there. @justifiedsinner and nate1234: That's a lot of C. J. Cherryh! I'll try to get some of these added this weekend but as I mentioned in another thread I'll be giving preference to Grand Master books for now so you guys in the GMRC will have those books to tag. Don't let that stop you from requesting more books though. I'll drag Jonathan into the mix again so we can get these up faster. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 11
Location: Karachi, Pakistan | I just finished reading Linda Nagata's 'Vast' a couple of days ago and was really blown away by how good it was. Its definitely a book that deserves a wider readership. In fact Alastair Reynolds cites it as a major influence on his work:
http://approachingpavonis.blogspot.com/2011/06/vast.html
Now Vast shows up in the SF Mistressworks list (again I was surprised that it wasn't nominated for more awards), but I also discovered that its the fourth book in a series (The Nanotech Succession), which are probably worth adding to the database:
1. Tech-Heaven
2. The Bohr Maker
3. Deception Well
4. Vast
http://www.librarything.com/series/The+Nanotech+Succession |
|
| |
|
Admin
Posts: 4004
Location: Dallas, Texas | @iftyzaidi: I was not aware Vast was part of a series. I can't abide an incomplete series! These are on the list for sure. I might have to give these a go; I'm a huge fan of Reynolds. Thanks for the info. |
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 1465
Location: The Netherlands | I've already gotten my Arthur C. Clarke in for the Grandmaster reading challenge but a couple you may want to add are The Songs of DIstant Earth and The Last Theorem (by Clarke and fellow grandmaster Pohl). |
|
| |
|
New User
Posts: 2
| Hello to everyone, I'm a new user of this beautiful website.
I would like to make a suggestion but I don't know if this is the right thread: I'm a great fan of historical fantasy and i think that also authors like Bernard Cornwell and Edward Rutherfurd could be included in this site.
Thank you for the attenction and many compliments for your fantastic work! |
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 794
| I don't think either of those authors really qualifies. To my mind they are authors of historic fiction rather than fantasy. To illustrate the difference take Cornwell and fantasy author Naomi Novik:
Cornwell: The influence of a British rifleman (Sharpe) on the Napoleonic Wars.
Novik: The influence of Dragons on the Napoleonic Wars.
Edited by justifiedsinner 2012-02-18 11:34 AM
|
|
| |
|
New User
Posts: 2
| I agree that not all their works can be included in this site, but for example in the The Warlord Chronicles we can find magic and sorcery and characters such as Merlin, king Arthur etc ; in Azincourt the intervention of saints.
Edited by kya 2012-02-19 7:45 AM
|
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 1465
Location: The Netherlands | It might be a bit outside the scope of the site as it is but given the overlap between fantasy, alternative history and historical novels, it might be a logical expansion for WWEnd to include historical novels though. I have read Rutherfurd for instance and enjoyed his books a lot. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 29
| i look at guy gavriel kay, and just three books show a considerable range on how "fantasy" his faux history novels are:
lions of al-rassan: one character has psi abilities(?) but otherwise just el cid with a different name
last light of the sun: fey folk show up, but otherwise just alfred the great with a different name
tigana: if magic isn't real then there is no story
an historical novel like julian rathbone's _the last english king_ has a similar feel to a lot of medieval-esque fantasy novels, but an historical novel like richard powers's _the time of our singing_, which is set during the civil rights movement, has a very different feel, despite the facts that powers is already in the database and the story technically involves time travel. (powers's _galatea 2.2_ might be a valid addition to the database though). historical fiction set sufficiently far back in time has an "otherworldly" feeling similar to certain types of fantasy and science fiction, but might not a contemporary novel from a different culture as well? eg, ha jin's _waiting_ or paolo lin's _city of god_ might be "otherwordly" to an anglo-american reader with limited familiarity with chinese or brazilian culture. |
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 794
| Then where would you draw the line? Among the best historical fiction works I have read are Penelope Fitzgerald's novels, Hilary Mantle's 'Wolf Hall' and Pat Barker's Regeneration trilogy. None of these have any fantastical notes. |
|
| |
|
Admin
Posts: 4004
Location: Dallas, Texas | Wow. Somehow I lost track of this thread so let me catch up. @valashain: I would have layed money down that we had The Songs of Distant Earth in the DB already. Shocking. I'll add that one and The Last Theorem to my wicked long list. @kya: Welcome to WWEnd and thanks for the compliments! I'm a big historical fiction fan too. Loved Sharpe's Rifles which as justifiedsinner rightly points out would not be a fit here. I've not read any other Cornwell works but from your description The Warlord Chronicles would certainly fit well enough. @valashain: It can often be a fine line deciding what to include and what not to include in our database. Typically we'll go with whatever the major awards or lists classify as SF, F or H. That removes the burden of making the tough decisions to some extent and allows us to push the boundaries of what is and what isn't genre fiction in a way that we're comfortable with. The Guardian list has many great examples of books that push those boundaries. I never expected to be adding Kafka, Umberto Eco, Herman Hesse or Virginia Woolf to this site! We saw adding those books as a great way to expand into the more literary side of genre fiction. It's a really exciting and very different list than what you typically see and if anyone cries foul we can say with a straight face: "Take it up with the Guardian, Pal..." The historical fantasy, especially where dragons and obvious fantastical elements come into play, are a no brainer for inclusion (even when coming from somebody who sells in the gen fic section like Cornwell) but I'm always leary of shifting the focus too much away from the genre fiction core. There is just so much still to cover within the comfortable bounds of SF/F/H that I can't really see us making that expansion to include straight up historical novels (sans fantastic elements) for some time to come. Heck it took us years to get around to embracing Horror as a distinct genre outside of the "Dark Fantasy" label we attached to everything scary that came our way. The gray area for me comes in most awkwardly when we add an author who writes in multiple genres. nate1234 points out many great examples of authors that could be problematic. Once an author makes it into our DB, through an award nomination or inclusion in a best books list typically, we like to expand on their bibliographies. Eventually we end up posting something like Able One by Ben Bova. It's got lasers and other high tech military equipment etc. but it seems clearly to be more in the "thriller fiction" camp than in the SF realm. I'm OK with that one because Ben Bova is a total bad ass (he did an interview with us) but also because it's still pretty gray. You could get away with tagging it as "near future" SF. Where do you draw the line, indeed! Well, I suppose since it's a fuzzy line at best we'll continue to veer this way and that over the line on a case by case basis while we try to stick to our core mission of giving you guys the best SF/F/H books to pick from. As always, we'll be leaning on our members to help us decide what needs to be added. I have a feeling you will let us know if we stray too far. |
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 526
Location: UK | I'm not quite sure why this thread has gone off topic and become about books missing from the site, but I've spotted another incomplete series:
John Barnes - Thousand Cultures series (that's what wikipedia calls it, anyway)
A Million Open Doors (already in the database)
Earth Made of Glass (already in the database)
The Merchants of Souls
The Armies of Memory
I notice because I just bought the third one yesterday. |
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 794
| I don't think that is off topic. This is the overlooked books thread after all, not just ones missing from a series. |
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 526
Location: UK | It wasn't intended as a dig at your post. The original post was about books that didn't receive the recognition they deserved, but the last few pages been about books missing from the site. I don't mind that - I didn't really know where else to put my post - I just thought it was worth noting. |
|
| |
|
Admin
Posts: 4004
Location: Dallas, Texas | |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 41
Location: Florida | Just took a look at this thread now and I'm wondering what ever happened to the suggestion of an overlooked books list? |
|
| |
|
Admin
Posts: 4004
Location: Dallas, Texas | jfrantz - 2012-03-31 1:55 PM Just took a look at this thread now and I'm wondering what ever happened to the suggestion of an overlooked books list? Yeah, this thread morphed into a "you forgot this book" long ago. The orignial idea to make a list just never panned out. Forum participation is sporatic at best so it just died. We didn't push it because we had, and still have, lots of lists to add to the site. What I've always thought would be a cool list is to create an "Alternate Hugo" list. Go back and look at all the eligible books from each year and pick a new shortlist then have a vote from there. With the benefit of hindsight you could come up with a pretty damn good list of books. Comparing the actual Hugo to the Alternate Hugo would be interesting. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 41
Location: Florida | Yeah, that would be cool! Seems like just as big an undertaking though? It would probably even be fun to take a re-vote on the nominees. |
|
| |
|
New User
Posts: 1
| I really enjoy the "Overlord" books. Really got into them. Reminded me of this new medium of fiction I just discovered last week called "emotobooks" I really got into their sci-fi title called "Swing Zone" Has a lot in common with Overlord. Loved It. |
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 857
Location: The Wilds of Washington | I noticed that you added World Without End by Haldeman. That's an interesting idea: to add early books by name authors, those Star Trek, Star Wars or whichever pop SF books, might just be forgotten. I'm sure some award winning authors might prefer that. But no, we remember. I know Greg Bear wrote at least one Star Trek book: Corona. How many others can we find? |
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 857
Location: The Wilds of Washington | Haldeman also wrote the Star Trek book Planet of Judgement. Who says that if you start writing pulps you'll never craft anything award winning worthy? |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1031
Location: UK | Everyone starts out as a journeyman,and the good old days of pulps and magazines to learn your craft would probably have already gone by his time. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 27
Location: Canada | Have to agree with Nate 1234's comment from February (I really should try and keep more up-to-date on this excellent site) regarding how some Sci-fan is really just historical fiction. I've read the G-G Kay "Last light" novel and agree entirely. And what about Neil Stephenson's Baroque cycle that even won a Locus SF? Just because it deviates slightly from true history and has a minor character who is implied to be immortal (& turns up in Cryptonomicon) did not make it SF in my view.
Hi Admin(s). Still doing an excellent job! I note comments about how far this thread has expanded beyond the original intent. I have several other SF novels that are parts of series that I hadnt mentioned because I dont think them quite of award standard. Would you still like to be notified (I have jpgs of covers if that also helps)? |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 207
| @Dave: I really like the "Alternate Hugo" idea, could be quite a bit of work to setup but I'm sure it would be popular. If you ever did set it up I would suggest staggering the voting over a year or something and doing a decade at a time, hopefully there would be a lot of debate and discussion over the results of the last decade and the best books of the next.
Getting this thread back on topic, I think the Oswald Bastable trilogy by Moorcock is overlooked, steampunk from before steampunk existed. |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1031
Location: UK | htaccess,is that E.Nesbitt's Oswald Bastable? |
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 794
| According to Wikipedia:
Moorcock stated on the forums of his website] that his use of the name "Oswald Bastable" was not supposed to directly link his character with Nesbit's (i.e. to make his novels into sequels). Rather, he said that he was trying to connect with a particular "Fabian 'liberal' imperialism, still fundamentally paternalistic but well-meaning" which he felt belonged to Nesbit's era. |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 207
| The trilogy is usually known as "A Nomad of the Time Streams" these days. |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1031
Location: UK | Somehow I could never get into Moorcock,all tht restless syncopated jazzy style.But I was a teenager at the time,possibly it may grab me more now? ....so many books,so little time.... |
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 263
Location: Gunnison, Colorado | Turns out this trilogy is being rereleased early next year by Titan Books, the same publisher that's been working on a nice Philip Jose Farmer reissue program... Moorcock is mostly out of print, unfortunately. |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1031
Location: UK | Nice to hear about the Farmer re issues! By the way ,have you seen the thread about comics etc.I know you said you were a major fan,so we look forward to your comments.I know you are very busy,but a blog article on the subject would be most appreciated-as and when you can manage it! |
|
| |
|
Uber User
Posts: 857
Location: The Wilds of Washington | I'd suggest adding 10 billion days and 100 billion nights by Ryu Mitsuse. It's been acknowledged as the greatest Japanese SF novel of all time and it's now become available in english. it's quite a read. |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 207
| @gallyangel sounds interesting, I look forward to getting my hands on it. |
|
| |
|
Admin
Posts: 4004
Location: Dallas, Texas | Hey all, in an effort to consolidate all the different "missing books" threads into one place I've just created a new thread: Can't find the book you want? Make your book requests here! All the books requests from this thread have been moved over there. I'm having a hard time keeping up with the requests all spread out so this should make things easier to manage and hopefully I won't miss any! I'll leave this thread open for the intended discussion. If you have any book requests please use the new thread. Thanks!
|
|
| |
Overlooked Books
